Enneagram 2.0 podcast

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Beatrice

Hello. Welcome to the enneagram 2.0 podcast. I’m Beatrice Chestnut.

 

Uranio

And I am Uranio Paes.

 

Beatrice

And we’re very happy you joined us for our first episode of Enneagram 2.0.

 

Uranio

Yes, our inaugural podcast. I’m very excited Bea. What about you?

 

Beatrice

Yes. And I’m really glad that we’re launching this new venture to bring more enneagram out into the world.

 

Uranio

Yeah, and we definitely hope that you will benefit and enjoy your Enneagram 2.0 experience.

 

Jingle

What is the topic today?

 

Beatrice

Yes, our intention is to talk in this podcast a little bit about ourselves, to introduce ourselves to you if you don’t know us very well yet., our work with the enneagram and the content we’re going to be presenting in the coming weeks.

 

Uranio

This is why we’re calling it our number zero. And let’s get started.

 

Beatrice

Yes, I know when I’m first meeting someone in the enneagram world, I always like to hear how they first came to the enneagram, how they discovered it and what their experience was. So maybe we could both share our origin stories.

 

Uranio

Okay.

 

Beatrice

I know that both of us have been studying the enneagram for a pretty long time. I learned the enneagram in 1990. And I think you learned it pretty shortly after that, right?

 

Uranio

1996 actually.

 

Beatrice

Right, right. So how did you first encounter the enneagram?

 

Uranio

Well, I had a student of mine, because I was already working as an organizational consultant by then. A student of mine in Brazil, because I am Brazilian and I come from São Paulo. But I was teaching actually in Rio de Janeiro at that time. And a student of mine just commented that she worked with the enneagram, because I was talking about styles and personalities using some other system, which is not very well known. So, she said that and I’ve got interested in the things that she said and I went to read, you know, a few books. The first book I read was Helen Palmer’s which was in Portuguese, my original language. So, excuse my English by the way, I think we’re going to do a few funny things like, Bea correcting my English, while we talk here on the podcast, right Bea?

Okay, so I got to know it through that student, and then through a book, and then through a very good teacher in Brazil, Racily. And then eventually, you know, I started studying quite a lot of it and reading, which has to do with my enneagram type and subtype, while I was just starting teaching it in a few places, especially in business, because I come from the business and management background.

 

Beatrice

And did you know right away that you were a five?

 

Uranio

In my case? Yes.

 

Beatrice

It was pretty obvious.

 

Uranio

Yeah, you know, actually that student that I first talked about the enneagram told me about five and then I said: “I think this is me”. And then I read the first book, Helen’s book. I was really surprised, you know, one of the reactions people sometimes have is: does this author know inside my head? My heart and everything? So I was, you know, pretty shocked with what I read. And it was very obvious to me from the beginning that the enneagram talked about something truer than what other models talked about. I actually felt ashamed that I had been using that other model that I was teaching. What about you Bea? What’s your story?

 

Beatrice

So, I came upon the enneagram, kind of by accident. A good friend of mine, from junior high in high school, his father was one of the first enneagram pioneers.

 

Uranio

Who became a very beloved teacher for you and me.

 

Beatrice

Yes, both of us were mentored by David Daniels, Dr. David Daniels, who is a psychiatrist at Stanford. And I was just at dinner one night at the Daniel’s house, and Dr. Daniels was sharing his passion about the enneagram. He described it as his life’s calling, which was a little bit unusual for a Stanford psychiatrist to be interested in something at that time, relatively unknown, something called the enneagram, this ancient symbol. But he said he thought it was by far the best growth tool that he’d ever encountered. And so that got my attention right there. And I took Helen Palmer’s book home with me, and he had suggested I might be a two. So, I read the type two chapter and like you, I was absolutely shocked at how accurately it described me. All these details about who I was. It was right there. In very clear terms, even things that I didn’t really like about myself that I probably wouldn’t have admitted were right there, in black and white.

 

Uranio

And did you admit them right away?

 

Beatrice

Well, I had to think about it a little. But while it took a little bit of work and self-encouragement to admit them to myself. But it was incredible, I immediately saw how helpful it was, because it was almost as if it helped me see blind spots and parts of myself that I really didn’t want to see, you know, in a way that was very good for me to admit.

 

Uranio

In my case, it’s not that I didn’t admit, but actually, I was more intellectualizing what I was reading. You are a two and I’m a five. So, it’s similar to your process of admitting it just slowly.

 

Beatrice

Yes. And I think it’s really important to say maybe right up front, that when you do find your enneagram type, it’s not always a completely positive experience, right?

 

Uranio

If it’s taught the right way.

 

Beatrice

Exactly. If you’re being really honest, if you’re really finding your type, it shouldn’t be 100% good news, right?! And a friend of mine calls it the “argh” factor. It’s kind of hard and vulnerable to read certain things about yourself that maybe are things that are in your shadow, you know, the part of you that you don’t fully want to recognize in yourself, because it doesn’t make you feel so good.

 

Uranio

Yes. And I’m so happy that the newer generations nowadays are more open to this kind of approach of looking inside and going a little deeper.

 

I do think that there’s a real hunger these days for people to gain more self-knowledge. And I think that’s part of why the enneagram is really exploding in popularity right now, definitely in the US. But I think in some ways, or all around the world, several other places. Like we are right now recording this very first podcast in Egypt, Cairo. One of the cities we teach in, and we teach all over the world. So, it’s so exciting to see and witness how this is happening.

 

Beatice

Yes, and I think Egypt is a good example of a place in which, just in the last few years, there’s been a huge increase in enneagram work and different teachers coming here to share ideas. And in fact, you know, one of the things is, we’ve met so many different people here. And so, it’s a great example of how in different places all over the world the enneagram is really catching on. Which is another reason why I’m so glad we’re doing this podcast, because I think we can speak more about our intentions. But I know that for us it’s really about sharing our work, sharing our views on the enneagram, helping people take whatever enneagram studies they may be doing to a deeper level.

 

Uranio

Yeah, I think nobody wants anymore, more of the same, right. And people study and get information of all kinds right now, through the internet and different channels. So, this is one of our objectives. I guess, here on Enneagram 2.0. podcast. it’s not to do more of the same, it’s to bring in some very interesting discussion, sometimes controversial topics, and to make people think about themselves, not only in positive ways. But we also want to have fun, right?

 

Beatrice

Exactly. And I think for us one of the things that’s great about the fact that we work together is, I think, we’re so aligned around enneagram theory and high-quality enneagram work and making sure we’re always applying the enneagram in ethical ways, in ways that really work. But that we are also very complimentary in our skill sets and our personalities and our experience. And so, I think that we share really a sense of mission around helping really high-quality enneagram teachings to be communicated to more people. Because I think the enneagram can actually be a little bit dangerous, right? When people use it in ways, and sometimes completely unintentionally, they get excited about the enneagram. And they may not recognize, they just may not know when they’re taking a shallow approach or, you know…

 

Uranio

Representing some old concepts that came from, you know, books that are not updated, or, you know, not understanding really what each of the nine types are about.

 

Beatrice

Right. Yes, and there’s so many dimensions to the system. There are centres of intelligence, there are the types of course, there are subtypes and instincts and what the diagram says about growth itself, like the arrow lines and the wings.

 

Uranio

And it’s all about transformation, not only, you know, just talking about our personalities. You know, when we study the nine personalities, we study more who we are not, and then who we can be, become. Right. And this has to do with psychological and spiritual development, which many people are really interested in right now. Given the things that happen in the planet.

 

Beatrice

Exactly. And I think both of us agree that the enneagram is all about growth and transformation. That you need a good information about the enneagram as a map, but the information is not necessarily important in and of itself. it’s vital to the degree that you apply it in your life and that you use the tool for transformation and not as an excuse or something like that. Like, “oh well, I’m a two and so I do it this way.” It’s like, no, you’re a two and you need to learn about the way you are, so that you can develop much beyond that. Because as we know, we are not our personalities. We’re much more than our personalities, but we identify with our personalities.

 

Uranio

And sometimes we justify what we do with our personality. Or I can look at you and say “you’re doing this because you’re a two” like accusations.

 

Beatrice

Yes, exactly. Right. So, what we want to be all about is helping people understand the enneagram and how to apply it. Both in terms of cutting-edge theory, I think one of the things that we talk about a lot is how, you know, there’s so much to the enneagram, there’s so much encoded in it. And we’re really evolving our understanding of it right now. I think we only really understand a very small percentage of all that the enneagram contains. And so, part of what we’re dedicated to do is the continual unfolding of new information, ways to understand what is communicated by the enneagram, in ways that are usable and accessible to support growth and development.

 

Uranio

Yes, exactly. And it’s an ongoing exploration. And yet, it feels like, you know, so much has already been revealed with what we have studied so far. And I want to mention Bea, that when we decided to call this The Enneagram 2.0. podcast, and also, we have a workshop or retreat called the same way. This is because we see that as the upgrade of what you and I used to do many, many years ago. Like we need to get really updated in new theories and new ways of teaching. And I don’t know you, but on one hand, I’m very happy that the enneagram is spreading around the way it is. But also, a little concerned at times with things I read on the internet, mainly, and social networks. Because at times people don’t really know what they are talking about.

 

Beatrice

Exactly, exactly. So, in part, we may be here to correct the record at times, right? And to challenge some ideas that we may view as shallow. And to that end, I think our intention is to always be very respectful. It’s not about people, it’s not about not respecting other people and that everyone has a right to their opinion. But in light of some of the opinions that could be put out there, and sometimes in a very authoritative tone, we’re here to present our views to challenge this. And again, always with intention to promote the best possible use of the enneagram. Never to say that we’re the owners of the truth, never to criticize anyone else. That’s never going to be our intention. But we do want to say when we think there’s one approach that works better than another approach.

 

Uranio

Yeah, that’s our opinion and our experience. We’re not saying, as you said, that we are owners of the truth. And at the same time, I think we have a duty to the enneagram. And when I say “we” it’s all teachers, to bring in, you know, what we really think about and contrast, you know, compare. Because we are here for the sake of something bigger than us. You know, the enneagram at times just feels like a Heritage of Humanity and an unfolding thing and not exactly an invention, but rather a discovery of a bigger truth.

 

Beatrice

Right. And you said the responsibility of enneagram teachers, which I think is large. And I think a big part of that responsibility is also walking the talk. So, in other words, if you’re someone who teaches the enneagram or someone who takes an active role in promoting the enneagram, it’s very important that you be using it on yourself. Right? And I know that you and I are dedicated to that. And we will be using ourselves as examples and telling about our own work.

 

Uranio

And our relationship as friends.

 

Beatrice

Which is also a source of learning. But I also want to mention, I think, the responsibility of enneagram enthusiasts. Because I think we also want to suggest that enneagram enthusiasts have a responsibility to be looking at the sources of the enneagram information they’re getting and talking about. And always, if they’re dedicated to the enneagram, to really be understanding what the information is they’re getting, where it comes from. So that they can also play a role in encouraging the best possible uses.

 

Uranio

And honouring the system that is not only deep and useful, but also sacred. Now, on the other hand, you and I are not at all against spreading the word and making it more popular, right, reaching out to all audiences.

 

Beatrice

Right. And that’s happening in such exciting ways today. I mean, a lot of people who follow people on Instagram, people are talking about it in very innovative ways, like, songs that are being written about the enneagram. To me, I think it’s wonderful to see that. But I wonder, especially for people who are new to the enneagram, listening to this podcast, I wonder if it’d be good to talk a little bit about what we see as the purpose of the enneagram. Or how the enneagram can really help people. Like, why be interested in the enneagram?

 

Uranio

What do you think?

 

Beatrice

Well, I think that the enneagram, a personality, has ancient roots. That’s my opinion, not everyone shares it. But I think it comes from, we don’t really know where it comes from, but it’s probably thousands of years old. I believe it came through Egypt, which is one of the reasons it’s exciting to be here, and to be coming here a couple of times a year, every year.

 

Uranio

Teaching with our friend Abdul-Rahman.

 

Beatrice

Yes. And it’s very old. It’s very ancient. It has deep roots in, I think, some of the world’s most treasured and most wise philosophic traditions, wisdom traditions. But I think it’s probably the best tool available for really helping people wake up. And a lot of the core teaching behind the enneagram, that comes from Gurdjieff, who was an Armenian mystic that lived at the beginning of the 20th century, end of the 19th century, and who taught us a lot of what we know about the meaning of the enneagram symbol itself, and there’s a program of self-work connected to it, and which we’ll be referencing as we go forward, and hopefully, clarifying for people. I think one of the things that it’s always important to remember is that, in a way, we are asleep. It’s just part of the human condition, that we think we’re awake and conscious as we go through our lives. But actually, we live in a kind of waking sleep, we have kind of mechanical habits, we’re machines, as Gurdjieff said. But we’re special machines, because we’re machines that can wake up and realize that we’re machines, which is part of the human purpose, I believe, is awakening to our higher capacities. And I think the enneagram helps us see that in ways that almost no other tool I can think of really does in quite the way it does.

 

Uranio

Yeah. Gurdjieff would call the nine personalities the “men machine states of the heart and the mind”. Ways that we have limited ourselves to a much bigger spectrum of life and possibilities. He would talk about the possible evolution for men, but the very first one is to become human. And then after becoming human, we need to become spiritual. Right? Now, I do think Bea that it’s totally possible to have a sound and deep inner development without the enneagram. I think that many people do it, when people do very good level psychotherapy and also spiritual work. Now, why the enneagram is useful? I think, as Helen Palmer used to say or says still, it names the main obstacles for us to get there. And I see that it serves as a tremendously useful shortcut in our quest. You know, this sacred work of inner work is the most difficult one of all, and it takes a lifetime. And sometimes it feels like a lifetime is not enough. If we don’t get shortcuts we won’t get too far.

 

Beatrice

Yes, I’m a psychotherapist by training. I work with the enneagram for a long time as a psychotherapist and, if you think about someone who starts a journey of trying to understand themselves at a deeper level, it’s like, “where do you start?” You know, even if you’re smart enough to go to therapy to start, you know, being supported in your process of self-development, it can take a while to find, “okay, how do I go from what I’m experiencing in my daily life to the really important key things that I need to be paying attention to, that I need to understand about myself to really grow?”. And I think the enneagram just shines a light on habitual patterns that tend to be invisible, because they started early on so familiar and comfortable and so habitual that it’s like the air we breathe, we just don’t see it. And we just don’t realize that other people have other worldviews completely different than ours, which is why we can sometimes think, “why is that person seeing this thing so differently than I am?”. And I think the enneagram provides an incredible guide to helping you understand: here are the patterns that you’ve gone to sleep to, which function a bit like a kind of programming. It’s like you’re programmed in certain ways, and it’s your programming, so you don’t see the programming and you don’t recognize that you operate according to kind of a default mode. And what you really need is to understand more that that’s what’s happening. And that that default mode is a kind of self-limiting system. And that you’re limited in ways you don’t see. But once you see that, and the enneagram helps you see that, you can grow much beyond that.

 

Uranio

Mm, yes. So, I definitely agree with all we’ve just said, I think it’s something so beautiful to see how people start their journeys inside when they get to know the enneagram. I think it’s a very good start because of its very good precision, accuracy, and also depth. Now, I also see how much it helps people who have already been on a path. And when they get to the anagram, they focus more. So, the enneagram is a way to know what comes next in our development, in general, but also per type. We have nine types on the enneagram. Enneagram actually comes, the word comes from the Greek “ennea” is nine and “gram” is drawing or symbol. So, the symbol of nine. And you mentioned Gurdjieff. One of the things I’m really excited about is our studies to try to combine the more ancient enneagram, the process enneagram, as we talked about, with the personality typology that most people know about nowadays. And these are two very important dimensions of the enneagram that have been put apart. It actually disturbs me that people who know the nine types don’t go study Gurdjieff and all the brilliant work he did, or simply don’t know enough. While many Gurdjieffian’s, so to say, are against the topology thinking it could never work. And it’s like, “I don’t know it and I don’t like it much”, you know?

 

Beatrice

Exactly. And so I think that’s one of the things that we’re really going to focus on doing a lot is: talking not only about the nine types and the subtypes and the different aspects of the personality enneagram, but also talk about the enneagram symbol itself. Gurdjieff said it was a symbol of perpetual motion. He said, “if you know how to read the enneagram – and of course, almost no one does today – it makes books and libraries entirely unnecessary”.

 

Uranio

Yeah, exactly. And he said “it’s the symbol of all and everything”.

 

Beatrice

Right. So, we’ll be exploring that as well. We’ll be exploring all the different dimensions of the enneagram that help people understand the symbol and what makes it such an effective and powerful system. And also, the specifics of the enneagram types and subtypes and why people do what they do.

 

Uranio

Yeah. And at the same time, we will be very practical and talk about very interesting things. Mainly relationships and, you know, how those nine types play out in the world for each of us.

 

Beatrice

Let’s do a short break.

 

Woman:

If you like this podcast visit www.cpenneagram.com for much more great enneagram content. The enneagram 2.0 podcast goes live every other Thursday on all main platforms. Stay tuned to learn more about yourself and others. Have you already subscribed to for Bea and Uranio’s YouTube channel? Go to YouTube and search for Chestnut Paes, and click on like and subscribe.

 

Jingle

This is the enneagram 2.0 podcast.

 

Beatrice

I wonder if it would be good to share a little bit more about our backgrounds, and especially how that’s led us to the work that we do today with the enneagram through our enneagram school, the Chestnut Paes Enneagram Academy, and our online platform Chestnut Paes online, just so people know a little bit about who we are. Just so the person listening can understand where we’re coming from, and what experience we’re drawing from that we’ll be speaking about in this podcast.

 

Uranio

Right. So, you said you’re a psychotherapist, and I come from Business and Management backgrounds. And now I work as an organizational consultant for 20 plus, 25 years of my life. But the anagram pretty soon became really central in all I did. I started studying it more than anything else. And then I went to the US, started studying with the, you know, the authors I used to read. And eventually I was working only with that as an organizational consultant. Then I started teaching, you know, Palmer & Daniels trainings and all other trainings of myself, that I started developing, you know, things that started unfolding, sometimes intuitively, and connecting the dots, you know, different things that I was getting in touch with. Because together with the Enneagram, I started my inner quest in different wisdom schools, I stayed for quite a while in a school doing different kinds of meditations, then I was a student at the Gurdjiffian school, then I spent a few years also doing Sufi studies. So, it’s always been something connected to deep work for me. Now, I just think that, that led me to be in partnership with you because we have a very similar vision that this is all about transformation. And on Chestnut Paes Enneagram Academy we are all about that. So, I think that in different ways, you and I, we don’t really want to do workshops, or retreats, we want to do processes of development, to facilitate our students development.

 

Beatrice

Well, we do want to do workshops and retreats.

 

Uranio

But I mean is not only something, you know, lost in time, in one period, it’s just processes of development. And this is why we have created our new school, in which we teach together, bringing together different, you know, contributions that you and I have. And we have what we call the Personal Mastery Program and the Professional Certification Program with different retreats and workshops together, but also with colleagues of ours who do coaching and mentoring individually, and different kinds of studies.

 

Beatrice

Yes, I think, to say it in phrase, I think we’re very dedicated to helping people take their enneagram work to a deeper level, personally, and also helping professionals who teach the enneagram, who use the enneagram in whatever professional practice they have, often therapists or coaches, you know, leaders, people who work in HR organizations, to take their enneagram work to a deeper level.

 

Uranio

It’s a lot about the next step, the next level.

 

Beatrice

Right. And I started off actually in academics. And then, because of the enneagram, I decided to go back to school and study psychology and become a psychotherapist. So, I knew the enneagram before I learned psychology and I saw everything I learned through the lens of the enneagram. And I seem to see the enneagram as almost a grand theory of psychological and spiritual development. And after becoming a psychotherapist, I gradually kind of migrated toward doing more coaching and business consulting. So, you and I share that part of our background, although you were an organization development consultant for many more years than I was. But then I gradually started doing more workshops, especially after I wrote my first book – The complete enneagram. And then the second book, the nine types of leadership. And so, now I’m just really thrilled to be doing more and more of this deeper work with people, both just in their personal lives, helping them understand themselves at a deeper level, helping them further their growth journeys. But also helping therapists, coaches and other kinds of professionals learn to use the enneagram with more skill and confidence. And so, you know, that’s what we’re deeply dedicated to. And I think another thing that we are also doing, at the same time, which supports all that, is developing more enneagram content, really developing the theory, and I think sometimes, because the enneagram hasn’t really been an academic discipline, sometimes what’s happened in my experience, and you tell me what you think, is that, you know, there’s a good teacher out there, people develop a piece of theory, and they just kind of stick with it. You know, they’ve got a good course, and you know, they’re having good experiences with people coming to their classes. And they just sort of stay there. Because again, it’s not really an academic discipline, it’s not always about moving things forward. It’s more about like, “Okay, I’m doing something that’s working, let’s stick with this”. Whereas I think we come with a real developmental mindset when it comes to the work itself, that the use of the enneagram to further inner work, which is what we’re all about. And so, I think that part of what we’ll be doing is really focusing a lot on how to apply the enneagram in new ways. If those new ways work better, how to understand the enneagram symbol itself, the types, the subtypes, the instincts, how everything fits together. And really challenging maybe old ideas that we might think are outmoded, or just that there’s better ways and better approaches. Because after all, the enneagram map is only as good as it is when it’s applied. It’s not just about description or diagnosis. It’s about using it in practical ways to transcend your personality, to manifest your higher potentials, to really develop higher consciousness.

 

Uranio

Yeah, that’s what it is about. And sometimes I think you, who’s listening to us now, will see us discussing aspects in theory, not necessarily we will be in total agreement, although we agree pretty much in, you know, the vast majority of things at this point. But Bea and I try to stay being explorers of the system. And I think Bea that, conferences that exists everywhere help, enneagram conferences, when people and teachers share knowledge. But I’m particularly excited with the possibility of the internet becoming a channel for good exchanges and not only shallow things that we sometimes see. Now I think it’s useful also to say when it comes to our biography that both you and I were board members at the International Enneagram Association, actually for six years together, and we got to know each other.

 

Beatrice

That’s how we met.

 

Uranio

Actually, you became president for two years and I was also global president for other two years. And we had an opportunity to see how the enneagram could grow all around. Now, as I said Bea, I am from Brazil, from São Paulo, although right now I live in London with my wife and kids, since 2016, and you are from San Francisco. Now, you were born in Palo Alto though

 

Beatrice

I was born in Palo Alto; I live in California. I’ve lived in California most of my life. And, so yeah, I’m from the United States.

 

Uranio

So, it seems that you actually attended the enneagram conferences from the very first one.

 

Beatrice

Yeah, the first real enneagram conference happened in 1994. And I was there for that. So, I’ve been around the community for a long time. And I think  really one of the things that we feel really strongly about is creating a sense of community. And I think that’s one of the things we’re trying to do with this podcast. And one of the things we try to do in our work, certainly, with our enneagram school. So yeah, I think that, you know, we’ve deployed a real friendship through our dedication to the enneagram, and through our common vision of using it to promote greater awareness in the world.

 

Uranio

Yeah and it feels great that we are not just business partners and co-teachers but we are also friends. First friends.

 

Beatrice

And I think that we share a very key value in using the enneagram for own personal growth. And so, we will be using examples from our own life, certainly. Partly sometimes because they’re just probably the most vivid examples, because we’re living them, but also from our friendship and our business partnership. And so, I think that that will be an ingredient going forward in the podcast.

 

Uranio

And this doesn’t mean that we, you and I, are evolved or totally evolved now. Maybe we’ll help our audience here at this podcast by sharing a little bit of our flaws.

 

Beatrice

Yes, or a lot! And again, I think the enneagram, more than anything else, is helpful in looking at the shadow. Which can’t always be easy but…

 

Uranio

Do you have shadow Bea?

 

Beatrice

Oh me? Yes, of course.

 

Uranio

Do you think I have shadows?

 

Beatrice

I think we all have shadows.

 

Uranio

I do, a lot.

 

Beatrice

But I think it helps if we’re looking at them together with each other, because then we know we’re not alone.

 

Uranio

We cannot do this work alone, as Gurdjieff said. And, you know, having other people giving us feedback, and even self-development groups, is very useful, sometimes essential.

 

Beatrice

So why don’t we say a little bit about our vision for the podcast and maybe preview some upcoming topics?

 

Uranio

What is your vision for our podcast, Bea Chestnut?

 

Beatrice

Well, I think it’s a way of taking the work that we’re doing in workshops, in retreats, and then, you know, the online content that we’re developing, and communicating it in a different way, to hopefully a wider audience. And having some interesting discussions about enneagram theory, enneagram applications, about how to understand this remarkable system. We’ll also have some interviews with some thought leaders in the enneagram world, and we’ll talk about, I think, some really interesting topics. But before we get to the topics, what’s your vision? What would you add to what I’m saying?

 

Uranio

I’d say it’s our contribution to engage more interesting people on the whole discussion about self-development using the enneagram. And then, as you mentioned a little before, we have Chestnut Paes online, CP online, that came from another project, “Mundo Eneagrama”, and that is an online platform with lots of content that people might want to check… in…

 

Beatrice

Chech out!

 

Uranio

Check out! Thanks for correcting my English.

 

Beatrice

You know, I’m always hesitant to correct your English because it seems a little bit like I’m being critical and I’m not at all, because you speak three language and I only speak one language, so…

 

Uranio

But yet you have fun at times listening to me.

 

Beatrice

Well I do. I do find it a little bit entertaining the way you phrase things. But I find it kind of cute and so that’s another reason it’s hard to correct you, because…

 

Uranio

But I really appreciate if you do because I like learning. As a social five. But back to CP online We have a lot of content in there, both by you and by me. So that is our way to build community and to bring people together to deep learning. But it all starts with this podcast, and also our YouTube channel with several introductory materials. Although this podcast is both for beginners and for more advanced students.

 

Beatrice

Yeah, our goal is to have conversations with each other, with other people that are engaging and enlivening, and that really deepen people’s interest in the enneagram and help them take what they’re doing to a deeper level. So, some of the upcoming topics that we might cover, I think we’re going to start off with some of the basics of enneagram theory, in case people are learning the enneagram through this podcast for the first time, or they’re new to the enneagram. But again, we’ll always be trying to do it in a way where we’re adding something new, or we’re adding more depth. We’ll start off talking about the three centres of intelligence. The fact that we’re three brained beings. And we’ll talk about the nine types, and then we’ll talk about the instinct level of personality, and we’ll talk about the subtypes. We’ll talk about relationships, like how the enneagram can really help improve your relationship and we all want that to happen! We all want better relationships. And we’ll talk about the enneagram and the Myers Briggs, which I know a lot of people are interested. What other kinds of things will we share with people?

 

Uranio

I think applications, you know, in life, at work and also the dimension of essence, our higher selves, and who we really are when we, you know, just lower down the energy of personality itself.

 

Beatrice

Yes, that’s one of the things you’ve taught me is that when we really develop, and we really grow, we’re actually the opposite of who we are in personality. Which is why I think some of the stereotypes that get developed around the enneagram types can be a bit dangerous, because it’s almost like it locks people in to a lower level of consciousness. And it can discourage real growth, like when people start to change they actually become very different. Of course, change can be difficult but it’s definitely very possible, especially when you’re using the enneagram map in the way it can be used.

 

Uranio

And this is why you and I have our model of levels of awareness as something very central.

 

Beatrice

And that’s very new and we’ll be sharing at some point soon, because I think people will be very excited about that, it’s based on the enneagram itself. We’re going to end each podcast with a “top five” list and this was your idea, your brainchild, so why don’t you describe what the top five is and then we’ll do our top five for today.

 

Uranio

Yeh. So, top five.

 

Jingle

Top five!

 

Uranio

So, top five for us, Bea, is a way to share ideas of top five anything enneagram. So, we might want to say the happiest types or subtypes, or the ones who have more melancholy or anger. Yeah, we’ll have a top five for each podcast. And then, the idea came because I like to tease you, as you know, your life order, and I’m not as much like that.

 

Beatrice

He loves to spring things on me right in the moment when I’m least expecting it.

 

Uranio

And this is because of our instincts and subtypes, not our types, as we’ll share some other time. Now this is why I suggested that we don’t talk about what we think the top five is. We agree beforehand on the theme, a top five theme, and then you think about it, I think about it, and then we contrast it live. So, right now I don’t know what your answers are about the top five, but what is the top five today Bea?

 

Beatrice

And I don’t know what your answers are either. So, today we are going to talk about the top five things that excite us about this podcast. The top five reasons we’re excited about launching this new podcast Enneagram 2.0. Yeah. So, do you want to go first? Or should I?

 

Uranio

You can go first. So, what is five?

 

Beatrice

So, number five for me is that I love talking about the enneagram. I could talk about it really all day. Sometimes people ask me about the enneagram at parties, and then they apologize immediately saying, “Oh, you probably don’t want to talk about the enneagram. You talk about that all the time”. And then actually I could talk about the enneagram all day and not get tired of it. So, I love talking. Yeah. What about you? What’s your number five?

 

Uranio

My number five is that doing this podcast is the cool new thing for me. You know, I’m learning some technology aspects of it, and different things while I talk with you. So, it’s about learning, and learning is one of the most important things in my life. I don’t know why, why do you think?

 

Beatrice

Because you’re a social five.

 

Uranio

So, what’s number four for you?

 

Beatrice

Number four is that it’s another way to express my passion and my very deep dedication to personal growth work. It’s a way to reach more people, to wake up more people and basically to promote higher consciousness in the world, which is kind of what I see maybe as my higher mission. If each of us individually is making an effort to have higher consciousness, to become more self-aware, it makes the whole world more conscious.

 

Uranio

Love it. My number four is that through the podcast, it becomes more possible to spread the word of the anagram all around the world. Because you and I decided to be really International, and teach in all continents, as we are doing right now already. But also spreading the word of the enneagram in different facets of the system, different aspects and dimensions of that, it really excites me.

 

Beatrice

Yes, that’s a good one, Number three. So, I’m excited to share some of what we do and what we’re learning from doing our live workshops and retreats. Recently, I realized a lot of what we do trying to help people use the enneagram in their personal growth, when we work with people directly, in person, is we’re really often healing traumas. We’re helping people understand how their enneagram type is a defensive structure that has really helped them cope and survive, but also has shielded down from really addressing some traumas. And if they can really face some of their core wounds and difficulties, they can experience enormous healing and liberation. They can really have less stress and anxiety in their lives. And all the different things that we’ve learned about the enneagram and the human birth process. I’m excited to bring that to a wider audience, and help people see just different things that the enneagram can do as a tool.

 

Uranio

Right. Yeah. My number three is that I’m doing this with you, Bea. It is fun and it’s much nicer to do it with you, then alone.

 

Beatrice

That’s only number three. This might get us in trouble.

 

Uranio

Okay, I guess I now know, what’s two or one for you?

 

Beatrice

And we’ll talk about that later.

 

Uranio

But it’s top three, see? For me, it’s really exciting that I’m doing this with you.

 

Beatrice

Okay, yeah.

 

Uranio

What’s your number two?

 

Beatrice

I might get mad at you when I get to number one. Okay, for me, number two is I’m excited about building a wider community. One of the things I love about the enneagram is that I meet amazing people through conferences and people that come to our workshops and trainings. And people who love the enneagram are usually people who are really interesting, and very deep and just dedicated to their own growth and development. And so, I’m always excited about the people I meet. And I’m really happy to be building a wider community of people who are studying enneagram and growing in positive ways.

 

Uranio

Well, yes. And for me, my number two is that it feels like we are doing something good for the planet today. The planet is so much in need and dedicating some time to do this, and using this amazing system that the enneagram is, makes me feel good and doing a little part that we can do.

 

Beatrice

So, my number one… Well, you know, I’m not offended that you put planet above me, that’s okay. But my number one is that I love talking to you. And I love working with you. And I love partnering with you, and this important work we do, and I think it’s gonna be fun for us to have very focused conversations on important things we want to share with people.

 

Uranio

I love it too Bea. It will be a pleasure. As it is a big pleasure to teach together with you. We have a lot of fun. And we have so many stories to tell. Not all of them we can talk about.

 

Beatrice

And some that are a little painful. But it’s all about the growth journey.

 

Uranio

And my number one, you know, it’s something I’ve been learning in the past, I would switch my number one and two. So, even more important than the planet to me is an individual inner transformation for you, who’s listening to us. But in a way that we talk enneagram of transformation and not the enneagram of labelling people, whatever personality they have. This is what excites me the most. Sharing with people how the enneagram is a developmental tool. And sometimes we say it’s not only horizontal, it’s also vertical in levels of awareness, and how this can be our life’s work. “The work” as Gurdjieff used to say, inner transformation. And always the very best thing each of us can do for the planet is our very own inner work.

 

Beatrice

Right. And, I think we’re going to bring new ideas to you listening about how exactly to do this inner work. And, hopefully, new ideas, examples, new applications, and it is about the work and it does start with you. So, when each of us are doing our work, it has a way of inspiring all the people around us. So, I like that one. And I won’t be offended by the planet and the listener.

 

Uranio

You’re doing your work.

 

Beatrice

Yes, yes. I’m working on the pride of the two not having to be number one.

 

Uranio

Yes, I think it made me think if I’m still too much in my abstractions…

 

Beatrice

Everything is material for the inner growth process. Even the top five.

 

Uranio

This is why I can’t wait for the next podcast Bea.

 

Beatrice

Yes. Okay, so that does it for this podcast. And we are really glad you joined us. We’re very excited to be starting this new endeavour. And we hope you join us for our coming episodes. So, this has been the enneagram 2.0 podcast. I’m Beatrice Chestnut.

 

Uranio

I am Uranio Paes.

 

Beatrice

Join us again next time as we talk about all things enneagram.

 

Uranio

Thank you for listening.

 

Woman:

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Jingle:

Eneagram 2.0, find your personality, Chestnut Paes Enneagram Academy. What’s your type, what’s your subtype, so much you can learn.  You can be amazing go ahead and transform. It’s for yourself and others grow and follow the flow. And also, for the planet, let your mind blow. It’s from Bea and Uranio, time for you to know and be your best self with enneagram 2.0. Psychology, self-mastery, work and relationships, spirituality. Come and join the podcast, oh yeah, will be fun. Explore the challenges that from now you’ll overcome. Enneagram 2.0. Tune in, it’s your personality. Enneagram 2.0 Chestnut Paes Enneagram Academy, Hey! Enneagram 2.0 tune in now.