Enneagram 2.0

01. Getting Started: The Nine Types

 

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Uranio

Hello, welcome to the Enneagram 2.0 podcast, I am Uranio Paes.

 

Beatrice

And I’m Beatrice Chestnut.

 

Uranio

And today our podcast is called: Understanding the nine types.

 

Jingle

What is the topic today?

 

Beatrice

Yes, and today we’re going to talk about some of the basic characteristics of each of the nine types. And this will serve both as an introduction for beginners, you may be starting your enneagram journey by listening to our podcast, or at this current moment in your life. But we’re also going to put in some things we think will be very interesting for people who have more experience with the enneagram system. We’ll talk about myths and stereotypes that often get perpetuated about the nine types that we’d like to point out and hopefully work against.

 

Uranio

That’s very good, it sounds very good Bea. I believe that people who are beginners though, need to understand a few basics on how to listen to this podcast looking inside. So, it’s useful if you don’t take only this moment of life, but if you look back to all moments in your life. Apart from this, you can also think that your type is present in all areas of your life and not only one. it’s not only about work or about love, it’s something that shows up in all areas of your life. Bear in mind also that, although we may have features of all nine types, or at least features of a few types, we can identify ourselves with some things we’re going to say about all nine types, that one of those is really more meaningful, it’s more central. And people of that type have those characteristics as something that is more difficult not to have or to overcome.

 

Beatrice

Yes, exactly.

 

Uranio

So okay, let’s start Bea. Usually we start on number eight and not number one, would you like to explain why?

 

Beatrice

Yes. So, there are actually three groups of three types. We’ll talk about nine types and next time we’ll talk about the three centers of intelligence. Our body is a center of intelligence, our heart is a center of intelligence and our head is a center of intelligence. This is based on a more Eastern view of the human being about having three equal centers through which we process information from the outside world. And we start with the body-based types, right?! Our guts develop first even before we’re born. And so, we start with eight, nine, and one, because those are the body-based types. And then we go to two, three, and four, which are the heart-based types, and then five, six, and seven, which overuse the head center. That’s another way of saying it. For each of the nine types, we’ll cover some of the basic core traits, some strengths and challenges. Although, it’s important to remember that while each type does have strengths and specialties, we don’t want to think too well of the ego. These are ego games. So, we want to be thinking about these types with an eye toward always growing. it’s always about growing beyond the ego, not kind of making the ego better or making things easier for the ego. So, we will talk about strengths because it’s important for people to understand that all types have gifts and qualities and things, they’re good at. The problem is when we overuse our strengths, and we don’t develop a wider range of capacities.

 

Uranio

And we are going to cover the inner experience, as we said, and not only the alter behaviour.

 

Beatrice

Exactly, the inner experience as well as the blind spots. And the challenges of the blind spots lead us to talk about the developmental path for each of the types.

 

Uranio

Which is very, very important. Should we start with type eight, then?

 

Jingle:

Type eight.

 

Beatrice

Yes. So, type eight, sometimes is called “The boss” or “The challenger”. Their focus of attention is on the big picture, on power and control, on exerting strength, protecting the weak, on fighting for justice, on truth, and creating order out of disorder. They tend to avoid being vulnerable or weak. And their strengths are that they are direct, powerful, strong, generous, protective of others, assertive, hardworking, decisive and action oriented. However, their challenges are being in touch with their own vulnerability. They tend to deny any weakness they might have an overcompensate it by expressing a lot of strength in the world. They can dominate situations, they have a larger than life presence, they often get the feedback that they’re intimidating, even though usually they’re not trying to intimidate at all, they’re just being themselves.

 

Uranio

Right. And eights are also very intense in different ways. This has to do with a basic emotional pattern that they hold inside, which is excess. The heart wants more, more and more and then they become somewhat larger than the life of people. Now, intensity can be something that other people in the outside see or not, but it’s usually sensed, perceived in the senses. Now, eights also direct that intensity towards what they do, in relationships, and how they deal with themselves, either working too hard or sleeping too much, or having too much leisure, or whatever, much fun, too much anything.

 

Beatrice

Yes. And in Halen Palmer’s book, she said that they’re too long, too loud and too late. There’s a lot of excess as you say. At low levels of awareness, eights can be combative, they can be too strong, they sometimes don’t know their own impact, they can shut people down. But when eights really work on themselves and develop their higher aspects, they can really blend being strong, in all the good ways that they are, with being much more in touch with their vulnerability. So they balance out the incredible power that they just naturally have with a more softer side, and they can express more of their sensitivity and be more empathic with others.

 

Uranio

Yeah, and that becomes even natural. The trick is that when they get in touch with pain, or lack of self-confidence, or some sadness, or even fear, they feel like they’re getting smaller, but from other people’s perspective, they are getting more courageous, stronger even. And that makes other people feel good about them.

 

Beatrice

Yes, it really helps eights to remember that the biggest mark of strength is the ability to be vulnerable.

 

Uranio

And it’s useful to know that not always people will attack you, if you’re an eight, if you open up to vulnerability.

 

Beatrice

Right. But early programming can make eights feel like they can’t leave any space for that. They just automatically go into forward momentum, into action, into deploying their considerable strength in the world. So, some of the myths and stereotypes about eights are that they tend to be bullies, that they are totally insensitive. What else? What do you think are some harmful stereotypes that get attached to eights?

 

Uranio

I agree with these. I think that sometimes people think they are totally insensitive and that they don’t have feelings. And I think they do have feelings. Sometimes it’s difficult to show, to express it in a direct way, that would go against the identity they try to form. But also, they get bullied a lot for being eights.

 

Beatrice

Right. But they get misperceived as always being angry or always seeking conflict. When most eights will say it’s not that they like conflict, it’s just that they can do it and they’ll confront someone if they need to.

 

Uranio

What if it’s just sometimes the other person’s responsibility to be a little more direct and authentic?

 

Beatrice

Exactly. Now, when eights work on themselves, and they notice the ways that they actually do feel vulnerable, because we all feel vulnerable, they can really reach a good place and express the higher aspect of a kind of innocence, a kind of readiness and openness to be a bit empathetic with people and to meet whatever comes from their true self.

 

Jingle

Type nine. 

 

Beatrice

Nines are sometimes called “The mediator” or “The peacemaker”. The focus of attention for nines is on others. On other’s priorities and agendas, on seeing all sides of an issue, adapting to others or even over adapting, and on maintaining comfort and avoiding conflict. Nines tend to avoid conflict because to them, whether it’s unconscious or conscious, they believe it leads to separation. They also have weighed their own anger. It’s said that nines go to sleep to their own anger. Eights, nines and ones, in addition to being what we might call the anger triad, and that it’s their core emotion, are also the triad of self-forgetting. And nines really represent this self-forgetting, this going to sleep to one’s own agenda, to some degree to one’s own desires or anger. Nine’s strengths are that they tend to be easy-going, and adaptive, supportive, good mediators, because they’re motivated to defuse conflict when it does happen, affable, friendly, helpful and really good at building consensus. The challenges associated with these strengths are being aware of their own anger. Anger is connected to power for nines. And sometimes they don’t feel like they have power in the world to express themselves or exert the strength they do have, because they’re so focused on others. And usually, early on they may have had an experience of other people being more powerful or having louder voices. And sometimes they felt like they got overlooked. So, they take the path of least resistance and go to sleep to their own desires and wishes and preferences, and even opinions, and go along with others as a way of getting along with people, creating harmony, which is a big priority for them, and avoiding conflict.

 

Uranio

Right, I think that it’s essential to know one aspect of how all that starts with nines. They lose the vital energy that they have, when they start paying too much attention in the outside, to external demands. So, the energy goes down for themselves, they can be really active in the outside, doing a lot, but mostly for other people, for other things, for their house, for the pets, but not for themselves. When they need to focus back on themselves, the energy goes down. It’s not easy for nines to put themselves first. And also, it’s not that easy to start new processes. It’s easier to keep doing what is already in place.

 

Beatrice

What do you think are some myths and stereotypes about nines?

 

Uranio

I think the main one is that nines can have low action, in general. It’s not true. Most nines are extremely active, it’s just that the energy falls down when they focus on themselves or when starting something new, in general.

 

Beatrice

Right. It’s like they lose energy when they need to focus on their own priorities. But they have a lot of energy when they’re doing things for others or working on things that will create more harmony in the environment.

 

Uranio

Another myth is that nines only agree. You know, many times they show as if they are agreeing, but on the inside they’re just saying to themselves “I won’t do that” when other people are asking them to do, and they can be quite stubborn.

 

Beatrice

Yes. And they may seem passive because sometimes they go to sleep to their own preferences, but they can be very active and they aren’t necessarily always passive in everything they do.

 

Uranio

And one other myth is that some people think they are just followers. And it’s not true, because even nines are perhaps the most resistant against authoritarian people. So, they will not follow you unless they are reading agreement on the inside that that should be done. And it’s not because someone is nice that the person is complying to everything you would like them to comply to.

 

Beatrice

Right. They say yes, but they mean no sometimes.

 

Uranio

Many times.

 

Beatrice

I think it’s really important to understand that nines can be passive-resistant or passive-aggressive. Now they go to sleep to their anger. But when we don’t experience the emotions that are inside us consciously, it doesn’t mean they go away. It often means they leak out in other ways. And for nines, because they tend to be unconscious of the anger that they have, they can do things like be stubborn, or drag their feet or not make decisions or just get passive when it comes time to take action, especially if they feel like other people have been telling them what to do, or being disrespectful. They can get passive aggressive, and that’s very important for nines to be aware of. And when nines become more in touch with their anger, when they can get to know their own agenda, when they do the inner work that it takes to connect more to themselves and their own priorities, they can really balance out their very positive attention on supporting others with a more empowered presence in the world.

 

Jingle

Type one. 

 

Beatrice

Type One is sometimes called “The perfectionist” or “The reformer”, and their focus of attention is on right and wrong, on detecting error to correct it. They automatically see how things aren’t quite right and how they could be made more right or perfect or better. On being responsible and on being ethical. They tend to avoid making mistakes, being wrong, and what they’re really avoiding is being criticized from the outside. Oftentimes in childhood ones had a very painful experience of being criticized from the outside. And so, it’s as if they take in that critic and develop an inner critic that monitors what they’re doing from the inside, so that they will be good. Ones often say they wanted to be a good boy or a good girl. So, their focus is very much on doing the right thing whether it means doing things better or being virtuous, generally. The strengths associated with the one personality are that they’re hardworking, reliable, very oriented toward quality, they tend to be ethical and responsible, very honest. And they’re people who have high integrity. The challenges that go along with that, and the blind spots are that they tend to be unaware of their anger. And again, eight nine and one are what we call anger types. eights tend to overdo anger, nines underdo or go to sleep to their anger and ones are sort of in conflict with their anger, because ones want to be good. They often think it’s bad to be angry. And so, they avoid expressing it, they put a lid on anger. And what happens is, they express repressed versions of anger, like irritation, annoyance, and resentment. And in this way, they may not be fully aware of what’s really true for them emotionally, especially when it comes to anger. Related to this, they sometimes don’t recognize the effect of criticism or that other people feel criticized, or how much they may be hurting themselves when they’re very self-critical. They also really have a blind spot when it comes to relaxation and the need for fun and pleasure in their life. They can be over serious, and not give themselves enough of a break, enough of the time.

 

Uranio

I want to stress that I believe anger is pretty much behind most of what you’ve just said Bea, but it’s hard to admit that it’s anger for a type that wants to be perfect. So, there is a lot of stereotyping in our societies, in many societies, that anger is something bad. So, ones don’t want to be bad. And therefore, they can’t admit they are angry. But it starts with being angry on the inside. As you said, sometimes they think it’s just being annoyed or irritated. But those are more palatable ways of saying I’m angry. And what is important, though, to grow is that ones dedicate to having more fun, and their internal mechanism is to go against having fun, like, “duty needs to come first”. And it’s quite important for their development if they allow themselves to follow a bit more of their impulses for fun and pleasure.

 

Beatrice

Yes, very important. What do you think are some of the myths and stereotypes about ones?

 

Uranio

Well, I think that one myth is that they do everything correct. Sometimes ones have a secret life in which they dedicate some time, it can be during a trip, can be doing a sport, in which they are not that rigid.

 

Beatrice

Related to that, I think some people have the misconception that all ones are perfectionistic about everything. it’s kind of related to what you’re saying. But that every single thing they do has to be neat and orderly. And most ones will tell you that’s not true at all. They may be perfectionistic in one area of their life, maybe their desk needs to be in order, but their car may be a mess, or they may forget things. And I think it’s important to remember that not all ones are even perfectionists and when they are tending that way, they don’t really apply that to every area of their life. One thing I wanted to add about the one’s anger is the question of why are ones angry? What are they angry about? I think it’s important to recognize that because they’re always trying to do the right thing, and they see that other people aren’t always trying to do the right thing, that can make them angry. it’s sort of natural, like, for instance, a one would never litter. But then they see other people littering, it naturally inspires anger. So, I think it’s important also to understand about ones that they’re angry often for good reason. It’s just that they develop a kind of inner conflict around anger that can be very hard chiefly for them. But also, for the others around them sometimes, when they don’t give themselves permission to have their feelings and their impulses. But when they do, when they can accept more of their feelings, like you said, get more in touch with the ability to relax and express their instincts and impulses, and not having to control themselves so much and be so responsible, they can be light and funny and they can really mix a kind of serious, hardworking nature and become someone who’s more fun to be around, more loose and happier.

 

Uranio

Right. Now one funny thing, we sometimes say that while the other eight types need to improve somehow and get better, we say that ones need to get worse. They need decadence.

 

Beatrice

Yes, I love it. I love it when you say that. So, I think that’s a great thing to end on for ones.

 

Jingle

Type two.

 

Beatrice

This is my type. So, I might have to add a little bit in here about the misconceptions because I have a lot to say about that. But I’ll try to be brief. The focus of attention for twos is on other people, similar to nines. They focus on how other people are feeling, what other people might be needing. They focus on relationships in general and on gaining approval from other people. They tend to avoid being rejected or disliked or disapproved of. And their strengths are that they tend to be caring, upbeat and friendly, energetic, service oriented, supportive, and interested in people. The challenges are knowing their own needs, first of all. This is a big blind spot for twos, they often really just don’t know what they need. Sometimes they may not know how they’re feeling because twos who haven’t done a lot of inner work on themselves sometimes either don’t know what they’re feeling or try to avoid expressing feelings because it’s uncomfortable. If you’re trying to connect with someone and you have an uncomfortable feeling come up, that can be hard to know how to deal with, it can be embarrassing if you get emotional in front of somebody else. Also, the value of being direct with people can be hard for twos, they can want to just make people feel good, say nice things and it can be hard for them to offer constructive feedback. Finally, another big blind spot and challenge it’s very important for twos to learn about. So, if you’re a two, you might want to really listen to this. It has to do with how helping others, supporting others can be about a desire to be indispensable, and ultimately about power and control and even manipulation. It can be a way of having a role in the lives of the important people around you. And sometimes twos think that when they help others, it’s purely altruistic. And while some of the time it might be, sometimes it can be more about creating a position of power with that person. What do you think are other important things for people to know about twos?

 

Uranio

I believe it’s useful to know that most of this comes from an emotional pattern on the inside that we call pride. And pride has different manifestations. So, twos may feel pride when they believe they don’t have needs, only other people do. Or that they have the solutions for other people’s needs. Or they may be feeling proud when they get extremely happy when they help others, or when they become important for others. So, there’s this internal sensation that I need to be more than I am, more than a human being, like a superhuman, more important, because there is some kind of comparison, you know, standing above.

 

Beatrice

Right, and also important to the people you care about, so that they’ll consider your needs.

 

Uranio

And then twos sometimes create this trap of building dependency on them. But actually, they become dependent on other people depending on them.

 

Beatrice

Right, because two’s whole strategy is offering help and support to someone with the unspoken expectation that others will take care of their needs in reciprocal fashion. Now, this is problematic because twos, like all of us, think other people see the world the way they do, they imagine this is true. And so, they may help someone a lot expecting that person will then do the same for them. And then when they don’t, because the other person is not a two and isn’t thinking that way, they can get resentful, and even angry. So, it’s really important that twos learn that they may be meeting other’s needs with an agenda. And sometimes that agenda can be a blind spot.

 

Uranio

But that is very unconscious many times. Now talking about myths related to twos. I think that one big myth is thinking that twos always help. Like when you explain Bea that you believe twos are a little less about helping and a little more about being liked. Would you mind saying something about it?

 

Beatrice

Yes, it actually drives me crazy when I hear a lot of enneagram teachers, and this happens with even some of the best enneagram teachers I know, they present twos as simplistically helping and getting all the time and liking to meet people’s needs. Almost like going around looking for people who have needs so they can meet them. And that’s the end of the story, that’s the whole description of twos. And I think this is very misleading. Because twos, for me as a two, it’s not really about helping at all. It’s about making a connection. It’s about creating rapport. And as you said, it’s about being liked. For me, what’s much more in the foreground is, and this is where the pride comes in, there’s almost like a fantasy I have or a fiction that I believe in it that I can make everybody like me. And again, this is part of the pride, with the power of my charm and what I do for people and how hard I’ll work to support someone or please someone, that I can engineer positive connections and manufacture good rapport such that that person will either depend on me or like me so much, that they’ll just automatically take care of me when I need something, without me having to ask, of course. I have to say this because it’s popping into my mind right now. But there’s a TV show that has a music in it, one of my favourite songs about twos with this title: “After everything I’ve done for you that you didn’t ask for.” Right? So, it’s this kind of proactive, I mean, I help you whether you want it or not. But again, there’s a hidden agenda, sometimes hidden from the two him or herself, that I’m doing this and so you do something for me. So, I think it’s strategic help that’s offered and not just simple help, and that is much more about engineering connection than it is about altruistic giving. And so, I hope that there are people listening out there that would influence if they ever hear someone making just a very simplistic presentation of two, that they help people see that it’s more complicated than that. So, any more myths and stereotypes about twos before we talk a little bit about the high side?

 

Uranio

I think you’ve said many important ones and just the thing about not believing that they only give, give, give, but also what you said that they are not necessarily altruistic.

 

Beatrice

Yes. And I do think, and when we teach together, we focus a lot on helping twos see the pride that they have, and all the ways it manifests. Because I think in terms of the key emotional factors, called the passions, pride can be the most difficult one to spot and understand all the indirect manifestations. But I think when twos can be humbler, when they can see how they give to get, when they can be more aware, they can really love people from a higher place, they can be altruistic givers. They can be really good relationship partners and people who really deeply care about empowering people and loving people.

 

Uranio

And that happens more easily when they develop the courage of looking inside their own hearts, in things that hurt, wounds, pain, and when they work on that, they actually become more beautiful and deep in many ways.

 

Beatrice

Yes, the growth path for twos has to do with spending more time alone and really learning to shift the focus from others to yourself and really doing a lot of inner… connecting with what’s going on inside.

 

Jingle

Let’s do a short break.

 

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Jingle

Type three.

 

Beatrice

Type three. Sometimes called “The performer” or ‘The achiever”. This is a type who focuses attention on tasks and goals, on achieving. They focus a lot of attention on work, on creating lists of things to do. They love listing things to do, on leading their audience and figuring out what does this audience think of as attractive or admirable or successful. What’s the image of success that I need to create to have influence with these people? And creating a successful image based on their reading of a particular audience. They avoid failure at all costs. And they avoid being viewed as ineffective or useless or incompetent. Strengths associated with type three are that they tend to be very accomplished and successful. Threes are good at achieving success because they’re really good at breaking the path to success down into steps and goals. And then they focus on goals like a laser beam. And the path to the goal is what’s really in the foreground of what they’re thinking about all the time. And so, if they can meet the goal, and they meet goal after goal, they end up achieving any results they focus on achieving. And this makes them high achievers, it makes them good performers. You see threes a lot at high levels of organizations, especially in the US, but in the West in general. And there are people who really know how to fit into any situation. They’re shapeshifters who can, in a chameleon like way, turn themselves into whatever they need to be to be admired in different contexts. The challenges associated with this personality type are that when you’re changing your presentation, your image, depending on who you’re with and what you’re trying to accomplish, you lose touch with who you really are, with your true emotions, with what you really want. And so, you invest a lot of focus and energy into creating an image. And that image can be shifting all the time. And again, this is very automatic and unconscious for threes. But that tendency to shape shift leads to not being connected to your true self, on who you really are, and how you really feel. And so, another challenge is an inability to slow down or stop, threes are always in motion. They’re big workaholics of the enneagram. And it can be hard for them to stop, it can be hard for them to engage in self-care, to find work life balance. And it can also be hard for them to see there is value in failure at times. To see failure as a learning experience, and not work so hard to avoid any sign of vulnerability in the things they do. What else do you think is really important to know about threes?

 

Uranio

Well, to me, the two main things to observe if you are three, this the self-deceit connected to what you call the shape shifting, and also the adaptation, which is not optional. It happens automatically, naturally, without effort. And it’s hard not to do it. it’s almost impossible not to do it. If one who adapts all the time loses sight of who, you know, who am I really? And the second thing is how hard it becomes to stop. While it’s hard for everybody in modern societies, it’s only for threes that it feels like dying. Because the whole sense of being and worth comes from what I do and not who I am. So, it’s very important to observe these two aspects.

 

Beatrice

And when we work with people in our inner work retreats, the story we often hear from threes is that they didn’t really find a growth path until they had some sort of breakdown. It’s often an illness or an injury, or one day they wake up and they can’t get out of bed. That really leads them to do some inner reflection, because they get so on the path of meeting the next goal, and achieving the next thing they want to achieve, that it can be very difficult to make room for feelings to slow down and really just be. What about myths and stereotypes when it comes to type three?

 

Uranio

Well, one thing is saying that threes don’t feel. That’s not true at all. Feelings are always around because they are the center of the heart triad on the enneagram. Now, what they do is that when feelings come, they push away the feelings.

 

Beatrice

Unconsciously, of course.

 

Uranio

Very unconsciously. But they are around, so deep inside they are feeling types.

 

Beatrice

Yes, exactly. They are emotional types, they’re actually the core point of the heart triad. And they’re good at, very unconsciously, almost turning the volume down on feelings because feelings get in the way of doing. I’m a two, I know this. Sometimes what really slows me down when I’m trying to be productive is, I get in a certain mood. Threes are very good at just going into motion, so that feelings don’t arise. In fact, one of the motivations for threes working so much without brakes is, if they do take a pause, emotions are right there. Like you say, emotions will rise up whenever there’s a break in the action. And so, it’s completely false to view threes as not being an emotional person. So, when threes are able to really work on themselves and slow down and get to know who they really are, they can become much more productive than they ever dreamed they could be, because the paradox here is that, when you’re in touch with your real self, you can be more creative, you can find work that has real meaning and purpose, and in the big picture, you can actually be more efficient and effective, because you’re not just doing things because of an image or because of a work. You’re doing things because they matter and it’s coming from a deeper place. So, when threes get in touch with their heart they actually get more in touch with their true selves, who they really are, and also have much greater life satisfaction.

 

Jingle

Type four.

 

Beatrice

Sometimes called “The artist” or “The romantic”. The focus of attention for type four is on feelings, usually their own, and type fours are probably the most emotional type on the enneagram. They may not always show their emotions but they tend to be in touch with their inner state. Also, their focus of attention is on the status of connections. How disconnected or connected they feel to the people in their lives. They also focus on self-expression, on being special or unique. They focus on what’s beautiful, what’s aesthetically pleasing. And also, on what’s missing. Finally, fours are said to have a comparing mind. So, they make comparisons between themselves and others and often thinking of themselves either as lower or less good than others or superior to others. Fours avoid being misunderstood. They also avoid abandonment, or feeling ordinary or whatever feels mundane. They like the extraordinary and they don’t want to feel like they’re just like everybody else, they want to stand out. The strikes associated with type four are that they’re emotionally empathic, they often sense or feel what’s going on in an emotional level below the surface with people, that are very intuitive in that way. They have a keen aesthetic sense, they really know what looks good and what doesn’t to them, they have a very clear creative vision, and they value authenticity. Fours are good when it comes to emotions because while other types can think it’s not good to be emotional, or they can unconsciously avoid feeling certain emotions, fours are champions of being emotionally authentic. They believe something along the lines of, “if you feel a feeling, you might as well express it. As long as it’s authentic, that’s okay”. There’s nothing wrong with feelings, emotions are valid and it’s good to be authentic and be who you really are in the world. They’re also truth tellers, they will speak inconvenient truths or speak truth to power. They say what’s going on beneath the surface, the elephant in the room, sometimes when other people don’t want to hear it, when it’s an inconvenient truth. But fours tend to be courageous in that way. What’s challenging about being a four is seeing the positive in the here and now. That habit of noticing what’s missing can make it hard to see what’s good, what’s going on that’s actually working really well. Also owning their own positive qualities. Fours can have a belief, unconscious or conscious, in their own deficiency or inadequacy, they can sense or feel that they’re not as good as other people. Also, it can be challenging to manage their strong emotions. They can tend to have high highs and low lows and be kind of up and down, emotionally. Sometimes their emotions can get very strong such that they can be problematic in relationships. So, it helps fours to learn to rise above their emotions and find more equanimity. What else do you think is important to understand about fours?

 

Uranio

So, when you talk about the comparing mind, I think that’s very central, and many of the other features that you described so well, I think, come from that. So, the comparing mind needs to be correctly understood here. So, when fours compare themselves, they are placing attention in what’s absent, in what’s not present, in what they don’t have or what they’re not experiencing, and they need to understand that they develop an impression, that may not be accurate, that other people have that better than they do. So, the comparison is quite constant. While all of us compare ourselves and put ourselves, you know, in second place, fours do it all the time. And many times, it’s not in the second place but put themselves last. Or they also go do something about it but out of that comparison. Out of that feeling that I lack something, or they may complain and go against the other person. Also because of that comparing mind. So, the path of growth in the sense for fours has to do with stopping comparing, has to do with not competing on the inside with other people and valuing more what’s present, not only what I wish for or long for that I once had. It’s really valuing the present.

 

Beatrice

Yes, they can be a bit focused on the past. And it’s very helpful for fours when they can be happy about what it is, to be more content in their lives. What do you think is a typical stereotype, or a myth that is out there that people have about fours?

 

Uranio

Well I think many times we hear that fours are necessarily dramatic. And I don’t think it’s all about that, or other times we hear that they are depressed, that’s a big misconception. And a misconception actually about what depression is. Now, the fact here is that fours are emotional, highly emotional as you said. But, you know, they not always complain, not always do drama. You know, there are different reactions to all that, and many times this is happening only on the inside for fours and you don’t see it happening. I’d say that in some cultures, or most cultures, especially for men, you will not see much or hear much the person, you know, acting that out. And again, the enneagram is much more about an inner experience, we need to look to what’s happening in the inside to find out what our type is, not necessarily what’s happening in the outside.

 

Beatrice

Yes. A misconception I see a lot, especially in internet forums is, if you’re happy, that means you can’t be a four. And that’s absurd, because there are many fours who are very happy and even look happy. One of the things that might be important to say here is that the subtypes, the three versions of the type four, look very different from one another. And if people don’t know the subtypes well, especially the approach to subtypes that we use, that we’ll be talking about in future podcasts, they may not understand the varieties of four. And that actually two of the three kinds of fours can look quite happy and be very energetic and not at all depressed or melancholy.

 

Uranio

Yeah, sometimes we end up stereotyping all people of one type, as if they were only of that particular subtype. In this case we stereotype fours, we have stereotyped fours for the social fours. But we won’t go into subtype now, what else about fours Bea?

 

Beatrice

Well, I think it’s important to know the growth path is, in line with what we’re saying, a lot about learning to appreciate themselves, learning to see who they really are and what they’re good at, and not devalue themselves or reactively overvalue themselves and needing to stand out and be superior to others. I think both making yourself inferior or seeing yourself as superior is like the two poles of a spectrum, both of which are about this comparison. And when fours can value who they really are and learn to see all feelings as important, but not needing to overdramatize or become masochistic, they can rise above and be more emotionally calm and cantered, and bring the best of themselves into the world with a clear understanding of who they are.

 

Uranio

Totally agree with you, and I also think it’s quite important in their growth path to learn how to get out, you know, outside of themselves. Like, they tend to spend too much time, in some cases all the time, inside themselves. Specially in the heart, in feelings and the experience I have with myself. So, it’s quite self-referencing. Now, when fours learn how to go outside and experience the reality that is happening out there, without coming back to interpret that, then many good things happen to them, like placing attention in the outside without coming back to the heart, and being more in the outside where things are actually happening.

 

Beatrice

Being more objective and less interpreting their world through a subjective lens based on their emotional state or what they believe to be true about themselves.

 

Uranio

Emotions can be really good, beautiful and our life is not worth it if it’s not felt. But on the other hand, if it’s all about emotions, it’s also not ok.

 

Beatrice

There’s an over identification with emotions, just like if there’s an over identification with thoughts, that can be bad as well.

 

Uranio

Exactly. So, it’s not true that “I feel therefore I am” and that, you know, everything needs to be felt. Sometimes I just need to stay with things that are happening out there.

 

Jingle

Type five. 

 

Beatrice

Speaking of over identifying with thoughts.

 

Uranio

And I know quite a bit of that.

 

Beatrice

Yes, you do. So, you can weigh in heavily in this description.

So, the focus of attention for fives is on gaining knowledge on data and information, and on managing resources of time and energy and observing things that are happening from a distance. Making sure they have space to process and think about what’s happening, usually most comfortably while they’re alone. They avoid having their energy depleted and various experiences they have, often with other people, can feel depleting as opposed to restorative. And they can also feel uncomfortable sharing too much personal information about themselves, or getting too emotionally entangled with others. They tend to automatically detach from emotion and again, this is an unconscious process, and go more into their heads, where they feel much more comfortable, focusing on analysis and being objective. Their strengths are that they tend to be independent and self-sufficient, very analytical, insightful, objective, because they’re very good at automatically separating the feelings out from anything and focusing on the facts. Also, they value and respect boundaries, most of the time, because they want to have their own personal space, that’s very important, and so they give it to others, quite easily. The challenges connected to being a five have to do with the fact that they disconnect from emotion, it can be hard for them to especially feel their emotions in the presence of others and express them in the moment. There’s a misconception, which we can talk more about, that fives don’t have feelings. But fives, of course, do have feelings, they just feel more comfortable experiencing them in private. Also, the need for others and how relationships can be nurturing and energy giving can sometimes be a blind spot for fives. They can see interactions with others sort of taking energy away from them as opposed to giving them something. So, they can fear abundance when it comes to love and connection. And feel like they never have enough privacy or independence just because that’s the real safe zone for them. So, as the expert on type five, tell us more about what this personality type is all about.

 

Uranio

I think that unconsciously we shut off our hearts, as fives. Both for receiving and for giving. But this means that we develop deep inside a willingness to receive more and to connect, because we start lacking that too much. There is a whole sensitivity in the inside that we don’t show to other people. And we are sensitive, both to other people invading our space, or going away from us. And we send messages that are not easy to be understood. Sometimes we want people to get close to us, but when they do, we get scared and we do things that they feel like they are being pushed away. But it’s many times not personal. Many people get it personal. Now, fives also have this quality of showing off the heart at the moment, but processing all the feelings they have when they are alone, which can happen in the next hour or in the next month or within years. Now, people don’t usually hear back from them, though. it’s very hard to share emotions. And another crucial thing to understand about fives is that there is, you know, grief about being lonely. And there is a misunderstanding usually about this, people think that fives just like to be alone. It’s true, it’s a lovely moment for a five to be in the very good company of ourselves and not nobody else. But, at the same time, we suffer with the lack of connection. And it feels many times more like not being capable of staying connected then really not wanting to. And there’s the thing about fives that many fives, including myself, report that they feel a little weird. You know, different, socially awkward.

 

Beatrice

I think in terms of myths and stereotypes, we’ve already named a couple of them, but they really center on people believing that fives are aloof or arrogant, or completely insensitive, without emotion. And of course, this is not true. And I think it’s sometimes difficult because when fives don’t come forward with what’s going on inside, and they don’t say anything, it’s easy for people to project their ideas of what’s going on with the five in that space. And so, sometimes I think people don’t realize that fives are hypersensitive. Part of why they need so much space is because they’re so sensitive to other people, and usually, like you said, far from feeling aloof or arrogant, there can be more of a sense of awkwardness or discomfort in sharing themselves with others, which can lead to a need to withdraw, which can look like, to some of us out here, like you don’t care about us. And of course, that’s a difficult situation.

 

Uranio

Very well explained.

 

Beatrice

Any other myths or stereotypes about fives?

 

Uranio

I think that it’s really not true to say that we don’t feel, I think we do and it’s harder to share. Also, people don’t really know the degree to which we can disconnect and the importance of privacy for us. Like, “oh I may be a five because I like privacy sometimes.” That’s not the case of a five. Fives don’t like privacy, they need it. And it’s not sometimes, it’s every day, several times a day. So that if we don’t have privacy, we create it. You know, there’s this interesting technology of being alone, you know, when we are with other people all around us.

 

Beatrice

Yes, you can disappear and go away while being physically present.

 

Uranio

And the mind is very active. So, we disconnect by thinking of what is being said and creating ideas over it, or thinking on all causes and consequences. So, there is a big disconnection by using the head or over using it.

 

Beatrice

So, tell us a little bit about the growth path for fives. How do fives get to be healthier versions of themselves?

 

Uranio

First, I think they need to get to the body. And then also to the heart, eventually. But it’s being able to do before thinking a bit more. Being a little more practical a little less philosophical at times, being someone who seeks for connection and goes for it with a little more zest, and therefore they feel energized. Also, I think it’s very important for all fives to be in touch with avoidance at the heart, you know, as a result of too much disconnection throughout life. You know, we used to fill in that void by bringing in more and more knowledge and information. But it doesn’t really fill in the space which has to do with emotions and people. So, being in touch with that sadness in the inside and not disconnecting from it is essential, though painful. Because when we get in touch with that side of us that feels lonely, feels bad, we start changing.

 

Beatrice

Let’s do a short break.

 

Woman

The enneagram 2.0 podcast goes live every other Thursday on all main platforms. Stay tuned to learn more about yourself and others.

If you like this podcast, visit www.cpenneagram.com for much more great enneagram content.

 

Woman

Bea and Uranio teach in person inner work retreats and professional workshops all over the world. They happen twice a year in California, London, Shanghai, Sao Paulo, in Cairo, and sometimes in other countries and US locations too. Hundreds of students from all places and levels of knowledge are doing these courses. You can see the full Chestnut Paes Enneagram Academy calendar of events at www.cpenneagram.com.

 

Jingle

Type six.

 

Beatrice

Type six is sometimes called “The devil’s advocate” or “The contrarian” or “The sceptic”. The focus of attention for type six is on watching for potential threats and risks. It’s like they’re scanning the horizon for what could go wrong, so that they can prepare for anything that can happen. Prepare for problems that might crop up and solve them ahead of time, even before they show up. They sometimes have authority issues and test authority, because they’re sensitive to power dynamics. People who have power can be a risk if they don’t use that power wisely. Sixes tend to avoid being unprepared in the face of threats, they can think in terms of worst-case scenarios and be always focused on having backup plans or creating contingency plans in case the worst happens. The strengths are that they are analytical and insightful. They’re good trouble-shooters and problem solvers. What’s tricky, though, is when you’re a really good problem solver and very good at forecasting potential problems, you can become a problem seeker, and sometimes sixes get perceived by others as being overly negative or pessimistic, because they’re always poking holes in plans or questioning what’s happening or thinking of some negative scenario that could occur, if you go forward according to the current route. So, what sixes would say to that, however, is that they aren’t pessimistic, they’re realistic. That they are thinking in terms of what could really happen and their intention is often to help people by helping them see what could go wrong, so that it won’t happen, and problems are solved in advance. The challenges for sixes are having more faith. Sixes have trouble trusting people, sometimes trusting themselves. So, learning to have faith in things as opposed to feeling like they need to control things. Six is the core fear point and so, sometimes they have fear or anxiety. This can be conscious or unconscious, depending on subtype, usually. So, learning to trust themselves and others can be an important path for them. But it’s also important to say here that a lot about type six varies depending on the subtype. And remember the subtype points to the fact that there’s three different versions of each of the nine types, depending on which one of three instincts or instinctual drives is dominant in your experience. And it’s almost hard to talk about one six because the three sixes, similar to the fours, are so distinct from one another, that it can be hard to say this or that trait applies equally to all sixes. So, for instance, self-preservation sixes, which we might say is a more phobic or fearful six, their challenge is building confidence and not projecting their power onto others, but owning their power and learning to express more aggression. And the counter phobic six, sometimes called the one-to-one six or the sexual six is the six that actually needs to get more in touch with vulnerability and fear, because oftentimes they go into getting active to meet threats. It’s a little bit like how we often say that the different reactions to fear are fight or flight. The three versions of type six represent these different reactions or responses or coping strategies when dealing with fear. Where one six wants to run away, that’s the phobic six, the flight six, there’s one six that wants to fight, that’s the counter phobic six or the one-to-one or sexual six, that moves toward the source of fear to meet that challenge with strength and sometimes intimidation. And then, there’s a third six, the social six, that’s kind of a mixture of phobic and counter phobic responses and basically looks for a good authority to know what to do. Again, we’ll talk about the subtypes more later. But it’s important to mention at this point only because these three sixes can be so different. So, what else do you think is important to know about sixes?

 

Uranio

Well, apart from the very good descriptions, I think that sixes benefit a lot when they realize how they project their own fears on to everyone and everything. And therefore, the root of the fear is not outside but inside. So, fear is given here, and differently from other people, it’s not fear of something, it’s fear, period. Fear is the dominating emotion, for all three subtypes of sixes that you’ve just described. So, because I feel fear, I go outside and start looking at reasons, potential reasons for me to be feeling fearful, and I see those in people who might be threatening, in situations that might be challenging and so on. So, if a sex becomes capable of going back for the inside, and stay in touch with the fear and go somewhere beyond it, you know, there will be courage.  By the way, courage is not the absence of fear but the capacity to stay in fear and go, you know, go ahead despite fear. Without reacting in the fight or flight mode, but just staying with fear. And, you know, also, maybe we could talk a bit now Bea, about the myths that sometimes surround descriptions of sixes. And I would like to start if possible. I think that one of the myths is that sixes are always talking about problems or being negative. I believe that they are more contrarians. So, it means that if someone starts talking about problems, they will start talking about good things, or even solutions. So, a leader in an organization or, for instance, I like soccer, as you know, football, and there are so many coaches who are sixes, in my view. And many times, when the team loses, they are calm and they are confident that better moments will come. While when the team is winning, they focus on the problems, they issue, you know, so they’re trying to investigate what’s behind any good situation. It’s a little scary to have success, you know, and they many times play the devil’s advocate, as you said.

 

Beatrice

Yes. And it reminds me that they can actually be quite self-deprecating, they can often be humorous in that way, and they often don’t have big egos, they can be humble, which I think is a good thing. Another stereotype I would say is that the fear associated with type six makes them somehow weak or cowardly. Now I think the fixation, which we’ll talk about, the mental habit of sixes is cowardice, so there is that tendency. But I think most sixes you meet in real life are actually quite strong and this shows in the fact that they tend to be calm in crisis. Because they’re so used to thinking about what can happen that when things actually do happen, they can actually be quite strong and bold, because there’s a kind of readiness they have, and sometimes they underestimate their own strength. But the strength is there nonetheless. Any other myths or misconceptions about six that you would name?

 

Uranio

Actually, I just want to say that sometimes sixes find it a little harder to find their types, because they question it. And they believe that they are not quite like that, so they try to see the exceptions first, or what is not very accurate or find out if they are, you know, just being wrapped in what they are thinking or doing. So, validation, reaffirmation is very important to understand this feature of many sixes. But it’s not about misconceptions though, I think that sometimes people just think that they are too insecure, but it’s really testing for danger, for inconsistencies and so on.

 

Beatrice

Yes. And I think when sixes do the work of getting in touch with their fear and learning to be more present with it and learning to really own all their qualities, that makes them strong and courageous, they can really be people who are both humble but also very powerful.

 

Jingle

Type seven.

 

Beatrice

Last but not least, we always make sevens wait till the end, it drives them crazy! Sometimes called “The epicurist” or “The visionary”, or “The adventurer”. The focus of attention for sevens is on the future, on planning for fun and pleasure, on looking at what’s positive and even reframing negatives into positives, on whatever is really interesting or stimulating to think about or experience, on having multiple options so that you can avoid constraints, or maintaining a sense of freedom and freedom to choose. And they avoid having their freedom limited or curtailed in any way. They also avoid, and this can be a big blind spot for sevens, they avoid feeling painful or uncomfortable feelings. Part of the focus on what’s positive is an unconscious drive to avoid feeling pain. And when I say pain it could be anxiety, it could be hurt, it could be any number or range of negative feelings that sevens sometimes fear. Again, often unconsciously, they feel that if they allow that feeling in, they’ll be trapped in it forever. And seven sometimes don’t relate to being fearful even though they’re one of the core fear triads, five six and seven, the head types have as a core emotion fear. They do have a fear of suffering. And again, sometimes this isn’t very conscious. Their strengths are that they tend to be optimistic and enthusiastic. They’re innovative, out of the box thinkers, they tend to be adventurous, they love going on vacation and planning a trip, traveling to different places. They’re very fun loving, they’re future oriented and they can be real visionaries. The challenges, however are what I alluded to before, the value of pain, the value of sitting in discomfort, the way that if you go toward your pain, there is something that you’re avoiding, that’s making you have a hard time focusing, or that drives you to distract yourself. And also learning to live within limitations, also learning to focus. Sevens can sometimes have a hard time focusing on one thing at a time because their mind, they’re said to have monkey mind, their mind skips around and thinks of a lot of different things all at once. But when they can engage their darker emotions more and learn to be more in the present, that helps them. What else do you think it’s important for people to know about type seven?

 

Uranio

I think it’s very central the tendency for them to seek for multiple options, multiple alternatives to everything they do. Like the seek for freedom in not feeling caught in only one course of action of any kind. So, sevens make sure to open up possibilities and keep the windows open. Now, this comes to a cost. Because it becomes not very easy to finish projects when pleasure is not anymore present, and they jump from one thing to another at times. So, this is essential to understand about sevens, because many other things come from that. Even the positive thinking comes from that, because I want to keep options open, I will get enthusiastic about everything all the time, because I’m always changing. So, if sevens want to change for better, they need to stop changing so much, you know. So, it’s important to understand that this is a limitation that they have. They hate limits but this limits them. Now, another important thing to understand is that sevens avoid pain by means of planning for their lives, all the time, in ways that will avoid suffering and pain. So, they need to receive life as it is more often and live what life is bringing, literally, instead of just trying to live only the bright side of life.

 

Beatrice

So, what about myths or stereotypes about sevens?

 

Uranio

I think there’s a big one, thinking that sevens are all only optimistic. Yes, they look very optimistic and they communicate optimistically, but in the inside, they can be very pessimistic about a few things. Like, they believe that if they get in touch with pain, pain will never end, this is not very optimistic. So, this is one myth what else?

 

Beatrice

I think sometimes people think that sevens are only flaky or unreliable, that they can’t make a commitment. And certainly, some sevens can be this way but, I think overall, most sevens can really make a commitment. Many of my seven friends are in long term committed relationships and quite happy ones. Also, I think sevens want to be taken seriously. And sometimes the way they behave can lead to people taking them lightly. But I think this is not what they want, and often not who they are. I think that’s another one. And also, I would say one more is that sevens never feel pain. I think some sevens can be open to it. And so, it’s a little bit like fours, the stereotype that if you’re happy you can’t be a four, sometimes if a seven has, you know, opened up to some pain or has gone through some difficulty in life, and are, in a way, forced to engage with some darker emotions, they can go there and they can actually be quite deep. So, I think that can be a stereotype that they’re not capable of a certain kind of depth of emotion.

 

Uranio

Right. And when you see a seven who’s truly developing and evolving, you will see someone who looks more serious, who’s really grounded and who’s doing a few things at a time. Maybe even only one thing at a time, more focused and having a lot of commitment. A lot of even detail orientation, being grounded at the moment, not just in the future, as they are. That can happen. You know, sevens who develop get there. But of course, in personality, when they are still not there, It’s all the opposite.

 

Beatrice

Yeah, I think that’s a really well stated explanation of what happens when sevens do some inner work. They can be very balanced and be still very positive and happy, but coming from a more grounded place. Coming from a place where they’re capable of focusing and not being so overactive, not needing to pay attention to too many things at one time. Sometimes it’s said they have Bright Shiny Object Syndrome. They can be more sober; they can be more down to earth than sometimes they are when they’re less self-aware.

 

Uranio

Right, I think Bea, for this podcast, it’s useful to add an observation now, not only for sevens, but for all nine types. It’s useful if we think of the nine types as leaving paradoxes. Like, these descriptions that we provided are descriptions of the nine personalities, when people are not very evolved, but we also talked about the path of development, and what happens with each type, when they follow it. So, there was a totally different description towards the end, which is sometimes the opposite of what we had been describing. So, there is this side and that other side and they are like two poles, and we are in between them, somehow. Many times, closer to personality, but sometimes, you know, in the middle. And this brings us an understanding that there is a tension inside between two concepts of who I am. And understanding this tension and even maximizing this tension, has to do with good inner work.

 

Beatrice

Yes, the enneagram needs to be thought of as having two dimensions, or at least two, one the horizontal, in which there are nine different types and all types are essentially equal in terms of their capacities and their challenges, but also a vertical dimension, that is what you were talking about that there are different levels of awareness and different levels of consciousness. And so, we need to always think about that. And what we’ve been describing today is a little bit the archetype, kind of the middle. And how when they’re less self-aware they can look a little bit different from when they’ve done some inner work. How they can also look different in terms of what they are like when they’re healthier. So, it’s important to remember that and I’m glad we’re ending on that point.

 

Uranio

Now it’s time for our top five Bea.

 

Jingle

Top five.

 

Uranio

By the end of each of our podcasts, we select a top five theme, anything enneagram. And what is it today?

 

Beatrice

Today we’re talking about our top five look-alikes. Type confusions we’ve seen the most. So, different types, pairs of types really, that get confused with one another when you’re trying to find your type. It really helps to understand some of the differences between types that can look alike, or be confused with one another. So, do you want to start? what’s your number five?

 

Uranio

Before I say it. Let me just say that you and I have different backgrounds on the enneagram. Meaning that you grew up in the US and you did more work there and I did more work in Brazil, Latin America and also in other continents. And I think that may point out just some differences between our answers. Also, the fact that I worked a lot in business for many, many years. And you, also did a lot of work in business, but you’re mainly psychotherapist. Then, there might be different experiences here. I’m expecting that there are some differences between us.

 

Beatrice

But not me. Yeah, let’s see.

 

Uranio

Okay, so my fifth one is a draw. I chose two different combinations.

 

Beatrice

So, this is your top six.

 

Uranio

Yeah, top six. But I can’t tell which one was more common in my career. So, it’s a draw for me. So, it’s the difference between six and nine. Because I think that these two types are the ones that usually find it harder to know they are either six or nine, and many times they narrow down to these two options and they don’t know where to go. So, some nines, although everybody thinks they are calm, they think they are a little anxious on the inside. And some sixes, you know, especially self-preservation sixes, they tend to be very agreeable, not all sixes. They are not on the inside, but in the outside, they seem very long people and sometimes they get confused with nines. Now, the second option for me as number five, and sorry that I’m sort of cheating having two different options for my fifth. But the second option is between two and six. I think that they sometimes look alike, because sixes can be very warm and friendly, and twos can be also a little doubtful. But it has to do with subtypes, especially the self-preservation subtype for both. What is your fifth?

 

Beatrice

My fifth is seven and two. I think sometimes seven and two get confused because they’re both upbeat and positive. They both can be a bit hedonistic, especially the self-preservation two. The social seven in particular, and again I know we’re referring to subtypes and some of you may not know what these mean yet, but we will be talking about subtypes in future podcasts. The social seven can be more service oriented, or focused on supporting others, and I’ve just seen a lot of people who thought they were seven and ended up being a two, usually that’s the case. Every once in a while, someone who thought they were two ends up being a seven, usually a social seven.

 

Uranio

Right, that’s a good one. Yeah, I definitely agree that there are many confusions about that. What is your fourth?

 

Beatrice

My fourth is one and five. Now, usually this concerns the social one, which can look a lot like a five, but I have run into people, fairly frequently, who think there are five and ended up being one, or think they’re one and end up being a five. I think there are some similarities in terms of being intellectual, in terms of liking to be alone and working independently, wanting things to be a certain way, things like that.

 

Uranio

Right, I see that. But I actually chose the confusion between six and one, not five and one for my fourth. And this is because, you know, we sometimes say for sixes that 10% of risk occupies 90% of the mind space, the headspace. And for ones it’s something similar, it’s hard to tell the difference, which is 10% of error occupies 90% of the headspace. Sometimes it’s tricky because the end result might look alike. Now, they both can be anxious and ones, although they’re body types, sometimes look like being a little more mental. So, yeah, there is some confusion around that at times. And sixes can be very responsible and dutiful. And sometimes that can be seen as a bit oneish. Now, my third is, I think it will surprise you, but I looked back and saw that there were a lot of mistyping situations about these two, especially in business. So, it’s four and three. So, why have I chosen this? I think that people don’t get too much in doubt between these two types consciously, but I think there are many mistakes made. Because of this combination of four and three. Not as much threes end up thinking they are fours. At times, but not as much as fours who thought they were three.

 

Beatrice

Especially self-preservation fours.

 

Uranio

Yes, but sometimes also sexual fours. I think both have a tendency to see themselves as being threes. So that was my third. What is your third?

 

Beatrice

My third is, and I think this is another one you see in business a lot, especially among men, and that is three and eight. I think especially social three. Eight and three can both be very assertive, direct, hardworking. Very action oriented, goal oriented, very competitive, even aggressive in some cases. And so, I see this a lot where someone can’t decide if they’re a three or an eight. Especially in a leadership position, you know, both of these are types that you find a lot amongst leaders.

 

Uranio

Yeah. Great. Okay, so my second is nine and two. Because, you know, both of these types, look outside. A lot of times to other people, they lose touch with themselves, in different ways, but they do. They are outer oriented, and many other similarities between the two that I’m sure you agree with.

 

Beatrice

So, this is number two for you, right?

 

Uranio

Number two for me.

 

Beatrice

So, number two for me is one and six, which you had in your top five. And then for all the same reasons you said, I won’t repeat them, but I see them as both being dutiful and sometimes, you know, get described as perfectionistic or particular about how things happen, implementation, things like that. So, for my number one, I had two and nine.

 

Uranio

So, tell us more about this confusion, what do you think?

 

Beatrice

This is the one I see the most. Twos and nines can look very much alike from the outside, and I see a lot of people mistyping themselves as one or the other. One of the first times I took an enneagram assessment I came out as a nine, and we know a lot of online tests that are not necessarily accurate, I came out as a nine. But I’m actually a two. But I think sometimes it can be… not only this is a common look alike but it can actually be really hard to tell apart. In terms of both of them having an orientation towards focusing on others, on being helpful and supportive, on avoiding conflict and wanting to create harmony, mediating and being diplomatic. There are very much similar and it can be a difficult matter to figure out if you’re actually one or the other.

 

Uranio

I agree with that. Yeah, it’s definitely very hard. Now, that was my second, and I had to look back and see what was the actual combination that produce more doubts for students. And, as I have worked in business, and most of the time, in Brazil my home country, I need to say that, by far, the biggest talk was between three and seven. This was really common for me. And mainly because Brazil is a sevenish culture. And we’re down to seven and many other types. But I think that these two types are both very positive, optimistic. They look to the future a lot. They do a lot of things at the same time, many times they multitask. And they can have not only a positive outlook, but they communicate in positive ways. Like sometimes we say mostly for threes that the communication patterns are like advertising. And they seem to be, you know, self-confident and happy about themselves. So, there are many ways that they can look alike. Now, there are many important differences. One of them, we tell sometimes in the form of a joke. It’s that threes really need other people to like them, while sevens like themselves a lot, already, they don’t necessarily need others to like them. You know, to me this is a little bit the difference between vanity for threes and a little bit of narcissism, not pathological, for sevens. Another difference is how hard it is to focus for seven. While it is not that hard usually for threes.

 

Beatrice

That’s the number one way I tell the difference when someone’s struggling between three and seven, which happens a lot.

 

Uranio

I also see that, while threes shape-shift all the time, like, they act differently to people of different groups, sevens don’t do that much. They actually try to make other people shift to adapt to them. So, sevens are known for, you know, dealing with people from different levels in the company hierarchy the same way, like, with a simple person or the president, you know, they don’t even adapt language at times. They don’t watch out for that. So, yeah, this was my number one.

 

Beatrice

If you want more information about how to tell the difference between pairs of types that can look alike, there is an appendix at the end of “The complete enneagram” that has a full description of the similarities and differences between all the pairs of all the types. So that’s just something for you to know about, as a reference, in case you want to understand more about the look-alikes that we talked about or even some of the ones we didn’t talk about.

 

Uranio

And we certainly hope that if you’re trying to find your type that this podcast has helped you. But if you are not sure yet, don’t panic! Because it’s really hard at times to find out our type on the enneagram. But just know if you keep reading, if you keep following our podcast, you will get there. And when you do, then you’ll find out wonderful things about yourself. Sometimes we say that some people take longer to find their personality types on the enneagram than they do in other models, but when they find out what type they are, they find out much more about themselves.

 

Beatrice

And by the way, it might not all be wonderful, but it will all be a good learning experience. So, this has been the Enneagram 2.0 podcast. I’m Beatrice Chestnut.

 

Uranio

And I am Uranio Paes.

 

Beatrice

Join us again next time as we talk about all things enneagram.

 

Uranio

Thank you.

 

Unknown Speaker

Please click on like to help spread the word about our podcast.

 

Uranio

Thanks for listening.

 

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Enneagram 2.0, find your personality, Chestnut Paes Enneagram Academy. What’s your type, what’s your subtype, so much you can learn.  You can be amazing go ahead and transform. It’s for yourself and others grow and follow the flow. And also, for the planet, let your mind blow. It’s from Bea and Uranio, time for you to know and be your best self with enneagram 2.0. Psychology, self-mastery, work and relationships, spirituality. Come and join the podcast, oh yeah, will be fun. Explore the challenges that from now you’ll overcome. Enneagram 2.0. Tune in, it’s your personality. Enneagram 2.0 Chestnut Paes Enneagram Academy, Hey! Enneagram 2.0 tune in now.